On the 21st of August 2025 (AEST), crime watched Planet of Fire (Doctor Who, 1984). Upon finishing the serial, along with analysing the entire product, they discussed with spif this clip from the denouement of Planet of Fire, henceforth referred to as the Scene. The following transcript contains their initial reactions.

crime: OH GOD IT'S HERE

spif: ANOTHER HANDSHAKE

crime: WHY IS IT ALWAYS A HANDSHAKE

spif: doctor who when it wants to hurt us

crime: and it WORKS

the way he says "i'm pleased for you" so monotone

HIM SAYING HE DOESN'T WANT TO GO

im not over it yet the doctor said he'd MISS HIM

spif: fiveturlough nation rise up

crime: his look back as he leaves

how did they make every single line completely devastating

spif: Why did I open this I'm gonna die watching it

turlough being so hesitant. Not wanting to presume he can go back to trion. He's so tortured here

"go on PLEASE"

crime: asking if he's back under arrest

spif: the way turlough glances down when the dr is calling him a hero

I'm watching again

crime: i've watched like 10 times now

spif: both him and five restraining their feelings

my exile has been rescinded/I'm pleased for you - both in the flattest tone in existence

handshake with the camera pulling out to show TINY SHORTS

the way he basically RUNS OFF

crime: they're doing their usual thing of talking around the subject but then five just says he's going to miss him so turlough says he doesn't want to go

spif: it's so distressing

and five RUNS STRAIGHT INTO THE TARDIS AND STRATS PUNCHING BUTTONS. AND IS SO SHORT WITH PERI

Watching again [crime reacts with a handshake]

he looks so devastated when the TARDIS appears

him asking them to leave so he can have. A private goodbye

anti war games

I love that five is the one being vulnerable first. Letting turlough open up too

I shall miss you said in a clinical tone but it's so telling

HIS FUCKING VOICE WHEN HE SAYS LOOK AFTER HIM TO PERI

This scene is so short but I will never recover

crime: i think he knows that turlough would never have the courage to say anything unless he did first hence turlough starting a sentence and not finishing it right before

spif: marks acting this is so heartfelt I'm losing my mind

I need to do a frame by frame breakdown I keep noticing new details

he looks right as peri and says 'look after him' but then sneaks a single glance at five and it's SO FOND

crime: YEAH

spif: he gets into the most terrible trouble says this man with heart eyes

crime: and then the smile when he looks back

spif: Dare I say it ~ Fitz coded

crime: YES

spif: five staring at him as he walks away not stopping until after he looks back

crime: it's incredibly impressive how expressive he is

why is every five companion exit so sad

spif: I forget about all the body language shit these two are doing in every scene

crime: they're insane

spif: I'm normal about them

Thus ends the first conversation regarding the Scene

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22 August 2025 (AEST):

spif: Woke up and reread our insanity from yesterday I'm going to watch again and be normal about it

crime: new daily schedule: wake up, watch enlightenment, watch planet of fire, be normal about them, repeat

spif: I'm normal

the war games but two is wearing short shorts

Dare I say ~ it gayest scene in dr who

[fathomless two in short shorts related freakout]

spif: fathomless I say this with my whole heart. You need to watch all of five

It will destroy you

crime: OLEASE

spif: Consulate the sprimeless marriage

Consummate lol

fathomless:

[then this happened]:

spif: when you get to planet of fire....

I hesitate to even imagine

fathomless:

crime: there will be chaos

spif: the interesting thing about twojamie vs fiveturlough is that two has lots of gay moments with physical touch (and the devotion of course) but five and Turlough aren't THAT touchy so instead it's just the body language and eye movements and the veiled conversations. OBSESSED WITH THEM

crime: normal feelings about this btw

fathomless: GUYS IM SO GEORE STOPP

spif: We can't stop

You'll understand in two years when you catch up

crime: ooh you should watch the rest of five

spif: Resisting sending the shorts again

crime: do it!

spif:

the fiveturlough image of all time

crime: real

spif: aside from....

THE HANDSHAKE

Planet of fire we could take it apart scene by scene and still talk about it for years

crime: frame by frame analysis is needed

fathomless: I'm gonna watch five jus so I can click these boxes

You guys are taunting me

spif: Its impossible not to talk about it

crime: our plot is working

spif: planet of fire will be all of our obsessions I believe it fath will be normal about war games and geore will eat up the master stuff

crime: REAL all of our obsessions collide

spif: I still have so much to say about planet of fire why is that episode like that

crime: haven't stopped thinking about it since yesterday

spif: When all the geores go to sleep we can yell about it forever

I mean we could private message about it (and we are) but it's not the same

Let's move to the sprime DMs

crime (1 day prior): [sent this post]

i didn't want to send it in the server because spoilers, and i think i spent like 3 hours looking for it but i found it!! [the dedication]

spif: Omg thank you!

LITERALLY war games aaaaah

crime: [sent this post]

spif: My hero

Oooooh I had forgotten five found the crystal thing

Yeah it's way more interesting that five clearly knew what's going on but just never discussed it

crime: also the way he doesn't look at turlough at all when he tosses it back

it makes enlightenment have a very interesting angle if he knew all along

spif: I love the head movements he makes when turlough is doing technobabble at the start

back to the main event

spif: What will I do with my days when both of my spouses are asleep

crime: stare at the sprimeless chumbley drawing wistfully

spif: My housemate catches my yapping mournfully about planet of fire to the chumbley hoping crime can hear it in their dreams

How am I supposed to work today when all I want is to watch planet of fire on repeat

crime: the worst trio in all the land

spif: 'I'm pleased for you' was playing in my head as I walked into work today

crime: AUUUGHH

turlough's "i don't want to go"has given me like 100x more psychic damage than ten's did

what do you MEAN the two people who never say what they mean out loud that they'll miss each other and don't want to go

spif: they said it they said it but it was already over

crime: really though it does make sense that that's the only time they could say it

not that that makes it any better

spif: honestly him talking to peri about five in that last moment gets me more than anything else he says

it betrays everything

he's barely keeping it together

crime: YEAH

you know how fathomless always says that in evil of the daleks there's so much unsaid in the pause between "i care about life, i care about human beings" and "do you think i let you go through that dalek test lightly" well there's ALSO soo much in the pause between "look after him" and "he gets in the most terrible trouble"

spif: I'm still thinking about planet of fire I fear [crime reacts with a handshake]

I'm always gonna be stuck in that courtyard

my exile has been rescinded

I'm pleased for you

dr i- i-

I shall miss you

I don't want to go

I've learnt so much

crime: i was trying to play piano earlier and just stopped mid song and was just thinking "doctor i-" "i shall miss you" "i don't want to"

spif: take care of him won't you

he gets into the most terrible trouble

I would die if I parted ways with someone and they talked to me like this

crime: I think we're becoming obsessed and depressed

spif: I don't see any way out of this

I clearly did not remember the power of that scene

What if fath gets to it and is just like meh

crime: i can't imagine that happening but also that would be terrible

spif: Immediate divorce

crime: LOL

spif: He just doesn't get us

fathomless: Hi

Why are you prematurely divorcing me

spif: Marriage papers that say: if he doesn't get psychic damage and obsessed with that one scene in planet of fire it's over

fathomless: I have like, two brain cells and they're always getting damaged and obsessed don't worry

crime: i'm pretty confident you'll be devastated

spif: And if you aren't we'll make sure of it

This scene is mine and crimes war games

crime: literally

fathomless: ITS THAT INSNE,!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

LIEK

GENUINELY

spif: To us

Yes

crime: i am not exaggerating in the slightest when i say it's our war games

we keep talking about the same scene over and over

fathomless: Is this like,; I do tend to get involved ,,,,

Or like handshake

spif: Stop asking questions you'll spoil it for yourself

Just have the dread

Let it infuse you

geore: I think I might know a spoiler that might be related to what you're talking about adn I really hope it's wrong or incomplete

crime: ooh do tell i won't confirm or deny

geore: I've seen things saying something about five leaving the master to die, possibly in a fire?? and I also feel like I saw something saying this happened in planet of fire (the ep you were talking about I think) which might be kind of on the nose but idk lol. The only reason I wasn't more upset when I found out was bc I know the master doesn't actually die there bc I know he's with six and seven too. But I think this is probably incomplete/not what you're talking about bc I don't know that it would be war games level.

crime: ohhh interesting. i shall neither confirm nor deny

spif: I don't think it will affect you as much as it affects us fath

But I think you will see why we are like this

crime: i'll bring back my diagram from earlier when we've all seen it

spif: We love narrative parallels here

If I'm being honest the fiveturlough thing is so unique for me

the war games parallels just sweeten the deal

crime: same i was insane about the war games but this just feels different for me

spif: I'm losing my mind

it's more tragic to me. Twojamie had all this time together and were open with each other but planet of fire is like five turlough finally getting to each other and now it's over. Like what happens in the au where they keep travelling together idk it's scary

Fives era loves to tease us with potential

like with five and Adric fighting and making up in earthshock. Or them all having a nice time in black orchid and Tegan deciding she likes travelling in the tardis.

I'm more insane about the war games in general than planet of fire. But this one scene of planet of fire destroys me more than any equivalent scene in the war games

Jamie's crushed stare is judging me from my pfp but I think it's true

fathomless: IM SO GEORE

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY BE WORSE THAN THE WAR GAMES

spif: I'm sure next time I watch the war games I'll take it all back [they didn't]

I do think the nature of fives era makes planet of fire hit harder

The stories around the war games don't amplify it the way the stuff around planet of fire does

Fives era is my fav drug

crime: i think that the war games as a whole is a more insane story, but this one scene has destroyed me more than any single scene in there

two and jamie are pretty openly affectionate, whereas this is like the first and only time five and turlough have ever actually said anything to each other

spif: it's the repression!!!

crime: ph god wait i thought of something else, in the war games the final scene of two and jamie is like the one time they CANT say what they mean they have to just shake hands and leave

i am not immune to repressed feelings stories

spif: Exactly I was just thinking that!!!

turlough sends the others away so he and Five CAN have a private conversation but they still hold back so much

it's an inverted tragedy to the war games

And like I was saying earlier war games is nestled between much lighter stories meanwhile planet

yeah in fives era, and with turlough especially, they've tried to give it more of an arc, which 60's who doesn't do as much

the war games is tragic bc it's over now. The Doctor will never be free and be close to any companions like that again

planet of fire is tragic bc he and turlough were actually bonding and could've been more open with each other. After an era of five being so distanced from everything

crime: AUGH

spif: My friend is hotspotting my phone so I can rewatch the scene from planet of fire

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23rd August 2025 (AEST)

fathomless: IM SO GEORE

WHAT THE HELL COUPD THIS EVEN BE

It has to be a negative scene right. To invoke twg feelings

crime:

i was driving to my new place just thinking my exile has been rescinded. I'm pleased for you. Doctor i-. i shall miss you. i don't want to go

spif: AAAAAAAAH

We were on a train last night so I was literally watching the scene without sound and saying the lines myself

I have no idea why my friend enabled any of it

crime:

spif: They appreciated the shorts

crime: i guess the difference with enlightenment is it's the body language not the words as much

just visualising five saving turlough from the airlock

everyone needs to appreciate the shorts

spif:

yapped about planet of fire with yet another friend again

this truly is my war games...

crime: i need to watch the scene again

finished the twin dilemma, but at what cost

going to rewatch The Scene to recover

they just keep holding hands for a second after the handshake

he doesn't want to (let) go

spif: it's the most tender scene masquerading as a business farewell

crime: i can't unsee it now it's like barely a handshake they just kind of hover there not moving

oh god do you think the doctor, stepping out of the tardis when turlough is telling the others to go on without him, thinks that he's going to stay

spif: we don't see the doctors face for so long in that scene

it's totally obscured until I shall miss you

crime: augh i wish we did

spif: and he is soooo mad when he goes back into the TARDIS with just peri

it's impressive how tightly wound he is but he still is able to say goodbye fairly nicely

crime: he really rushes back in to take her home and seems almost mad when she asks to go with

he's just staring off into space as she's talking

spif: the fact that none of his companions really wanted to leave him and all left so quickly there was no time for closure aaagh

crime:

spif: between fives tense body language and staring into space and turloughs soft voice and glances and both of them running off asap it's designed to drive me insane

crime: fr

it's been too long since enlightenment rewatch (two days)

spif: I don't even wanna think when I last saw it

I need to own it

crime: real

also same

spif: At least our favourite scene is still accessible

crime: can you imagine if it was a slideshow

spif: Noooooo

missing all of the little glances

crime: did it

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24th August 2025 (AEST)

fathomless: I DIDNT MEAN TO CLICK

YOO

WTF

geore: Was it a big spoiler

fathomless: No

Just

OH ITS EDITED

crime did you edit that

crime: ..

maybe

fathomless: My bad

I was like

They just did that?

But still

geore: How bad is it that crime doesn't even want to admit to editing it....

fathomless: the waist grab is crazy

crime: yeah that's why spif and i have been freaking out that's canon/j

geore: When I catch up I'm gonna have like 2 years of backreading to do I stg

crime: don't worry we'll be more than happy to lose our minds all over again when you get there

geore: Yeah but I want to know what these boxes say yk

You could say I'm

geore

[spif wakes up, having missed all of this. crime and spif discuss sixth dr episodes]

spif: Glances at the episode order of six's era but my brain immediately tapes over it with my exile has been rescinded I'm pleased for you

crime:

spif: What if.... I rewatched the scene

my exile has been rescinded

crime:

i watched it this morning and then just kept replaying it

spif: Its impossible to stop at one

crime: fr

at least ten

spif: When I showed it to my friend I had to restrain myself

I've never been this sort of fan before but fives era got me acting strange

Thinking about crimes edit

fives hand on his waist lol

#theshorts

I think I am more obsessed with the repression tho

crime: same

spif: wrong for them to kiss they need to shake hands and say the barest minimum of how much they care for each other

crime: his shoes were blue??? i thought they were white planet of fire

spif: His gayass fit

I need to stop calling everything gayass. But it keeps being accurate

[literally five hours later]

spif: Did someone say planet of fire

Should I rewatch

crime:

yes

we hsould watch on vc and we can both just scream when we get to The Scene

fathomless: YES

YESS

spif: fath starts screaming with us doesnt even know why

doesnt hear the dialogue goes blind and doesnt see anything

crime: i would unmute just to scream

me and spif with planet of fire

spif: I FOUND THE POST I WAS LOOOOKING FOR AGES AGO

pretty sure this is the reason for planet of fire

thinking about it tho

crime: always

wait i just realised he actually does take them off in the episode i was just thinking yeah he's wearing shorts but the peri drowning scene happened

spif: @crime i forgot about the scene where five is holding turlough's arm to look at the misos triangle I just sawa a gif im losing my mind

Crime I can't I'm losing my mind they keep talking about the doctor getting in trouble in the war games help

25th August 2025 (AEST) [past midnight, same conversation]

crime: YEAH

now im thinking about it he really grabs him and doesn't let go

spif: Right???

after rewatching twg the more convinced of the parallels like turloughs GO ON PLEASE is such a Two line

and THE FRAMING OF THE HANDSHAKE how the trion official is hovering just out of sight and revealed at the end and peri is off to the side in the same position as Zoe

crime: yeah like when he's yelling at jamie and zoe to leave and they insist on coming with, similar vibes

spif: EXACTLY when that scene happened I was like oh he's raising his voice AAAAH

crime: trion officer/time lord parallels

spif: and it's the time lord who's nice to them and lets them have a goodbye!! Like how the trion officer gives turlough the choice

crime: im sure it wasn't intentional but it really does make me wonder if the writer was a war games fan lol

spif: I'm becoming a conspiracy theorist I believe it WAS intentional

I mean probably not but like wow. The parallels

planet of fire is crazy for this server specifically

BC it has fiveturlough and twg parallels for sprimeless and the master for geore. Rare to cover so many bases

and a last look back like Steven!

and the shorts of course #theshorts

crime: designed to torture as many of us as possible

OH YOURE RIGHT

spif: I think the one aspect we haven't talked about is that peri is wearing the longest shorts ever

crime: i was going to mention it when i sent that picture of The Scene because turloughs are so much shorter than hers

spif: her shorts are obscenely long and also baggy it's hilarious

Wait I need to watch the scene before I go to sleep

Okay I somehow have new things to point out

crime:

spif: the guy in the spacesuit also being there at the start of the scene is really funny to me for some reason. He looks so out of place

the doctors restrained comments of affection for turlough reminds me SO MUCH on when the time lord comments on Jamie and Zoe being attached to the doctor and Jamie downplaying it

turlough asking peri to look after him reminds me of Jamie saying two can't leave BC he needs someone to take care of things for him

crime: AUGH YEAH

its one of those moments when he's saying it to peri but it's not really for her, he's staring right at the doctor and just leaves before peri can even respond

spif: Yeah like holy shit it's like how can I express how much this man means to me oh okay I'll just say it to peri like it's just a casual thing

The way hes addressing peri but his eyes move to five in the middle of it hes deranged

and five is so tense but is clearly in a rush to get peri home but the moment he realises she wants to stay he freezes again and then he basically forcing himself to be all smiley by the end of the scene

what would he have done if he just took peri home and that was that?

like he looks like he's about to start smashing things

crime: time lord victorious five

the way he just stares off into space as she starts talking

the pause between sentences where he's just looking at five

spif: should I watch the scene again

No I shan't

geore: Yes do it

Encouraging insanity that I'm not party to

spif: I always think I'll get nothing new about it and then I do and it's more black boxes

crime: how did they manage to put that much into less than 5 minutes

we're at the point where we're basically going frame by frame

spif: Ok I paused halfway through I have like five things to say

crime:

spif: the pause in the sentence as the TARDIS appearing where the guard says you could go back to trion TARDIS appears or not as you please like what does HE KNOW LIKE YEAH TURLOUGH BELONGS AS MUCH WITH THE DOCTOR AS HE DOES HIS HOME HE WAS EXILED FROM IM

like how did the guard clock him so hard

crime:

spif: also the framing of not just the back of fives head but the back of Peri's too. I've said this before many times but the choice not to show Fives face until he says Ill miss you

and the words are sincere but he's putting on a happy affectation so it's still fake

crime: RIGHT i want to seeee

i think that's as close to being honest and straightforward as they're both able to get

spif: the way turlough glances down after five calls him a hero like what is he THINKING THERE. like you know turlough doesn't think of himself as heroic i wonder if he feels undeserving of the comment

the music underscoring this scene makes me so emotional too

crime: i definitely think turloguh doesn't feel like a hero at all, if he was in the army on trion likes it's implied, he probably doesn't consider what he did in planet of fire special it would just be his duty and he's also probably thinking about how he met the doctor

spif: the glimpse of peri in the background and she does NOT want to be there and then turlough addresses her directly it's so funny like why are we dragging her into your yaoi

he's 100% thinking about the stuff with the black guardian it drives me insane

crime: so i read somewhere that the producer at the time wanted to make doctor who more like soap operas because those were popular at the time so that's why all the companion exits are so dramatic

spif: Okay I went back and continued from where I paused

crime: she doesn't even get a line she tries to speak and turlough just leaves

geore: This is insane I feel like there's no one scene that I've EVER been this insane about

spif: peri is literally wringing her hands the same way as turlough at the start of the scene and technically she is also making the choice between staying with the dr or going home but the stakes are like nothing in comparison

geore: Like after this much talking about it I would at least start repeating myself

crime: we probably are

geore: Time to finish city of death

Every episode brings me closer to the master and also The Scene

spif: also it's funny that five comments on the three months but doesn't mention it's a time machine. Like that's an easy out. I think he does feel bad for peri and is forcing himself to suck it up for her

crime: her and turlough could not be more dissimilar in terms of stakes here, she just wants to go on a summer holiday and turlough is going through the horrors as usual

spif: and yet it's also the same. So funny

geore is totally gonna miss the scene BC she's gonna be obsessed over the master in planet of fire tbh calling it now

crime: oh true lol we'll have to mention it after the fact

narrative parallels

spif: wait now I'm imaging planet of fire without peri where turlough is torn about what the doctor is gonna do now that he's alone

crime: he absolutely doesn't want to travel with her, i do wonder what the motivation was to not just drop her back at home, if he's really just doing it because turlough asked her to look after him

AAGH

i wonder if he would've stayed

spif: We are gonna have so much fun when y'all get to planet of fire

I think he still would've left but the conversation would be different

it would be like the end of dark water or whatever the twelveclara one is called where they both lie to each other about what they're gonna do

Do I need to print out a picture of the scne to put on my wall

Am I gonna become that person

I always write quotes from songs and stuff on my whiteboard I should add my exile has been rescineded I'm pleased for you doctor i- I shall miss you I don't want to go doctor I've learnt so much from you but trion is my home best to go while you're a bit of a hero eh take care of him won't you he gets into the most terrible trouble

[hours later once more]

crime: hate it when i rewatch The Scene and come up with several more things to point out i will never be free

spif: Tell me tell me

I'm astounded we haven't started picking at irrelevant details yet

Doing colour theory with the Scene

Like we're still doing real analysis somehow

In spite of the length of it

crime: there’s the point to be made about how we were saying before that “i don’t want to go” and “i shall miss you” are like the only times they’re ever direct and honest with one another but then on this watch through i noticed how the next lines “better to go back while you’re a bit of a hero” and “but i have to go back, it’s my home” are them back to being dishonest or generally not saying what they really mean to each other, turlough frowns when he says it’s his home and so does the doctor when he says his line, so it seems like they both know how the other really feels about the situation but as usual there’s nothing they can do to stop it

ok i got a little carried away

spif: EXATLY YIURE SO RIGHT

crime: reminds me of twelve and clara parting in season 8(?) where they both lie to the other to try and make them happy at their own expense but i don’t believe five or turlough has any illusions about the other being happy about what’s going on, hence turlough telling peri to look after the doctor

spif: Wait omg parallel with the scene at the end of that season where twelve is punching the console (it's BC of Gallifrey not Clara but shhhhh it's about Clara as well) like five really would've gone into that TARDIS and punched it if not for peri

crime: i don’t think i’ve seen a more fake smile than five saying the hero line it’s so strained and forced

spif: I STILL can't get over turlough saved this human from drowning and complained about it the whole time. Then the TARDIS took off with her still inside BC he didn't tell five. And then after her somehow surviving all the shit with kamelion and the master turlough is like tag youre next like neither her OR five chose it

spif: RIGHT??!?

crime: that’s definitely how we get to his personality in caves, he, of course, never expresses his emotions especially with peri around and it’s clearly not working any longer

spif: it's the fakest bit of the whole thing. Reminds me so much of Twos fake cheeriness after Zoe and Jamie leave

crime: assigned companion by turlough

YEAH

twg parallels

i just. ough their expressions in those two lines are both so upset/angry but so resigned, they said something honest and now they have to go back to pretending otherwise turlough probably would’ve gotten back in the tardis

spif: turlough regrets every line he says he's like it all reveals too much his eyes keep darting around

clocking in for my obligatory rewatch of the Scene before bed

Its funny how in the novelization his brother asks him to stay and in his speech he tells five he needs to go with his brother but here malkon only says Turlough! and otherwise stares blankly and moves off very quickly and happily. Seems very unbothered by whether turlough stays or goes. Meanwhile the guard is so invested in the outcome lol

Also the framing of this scene so that you are only ever seeing one of them and not the other for every line really highlights the disconnect between them. In some shots you have no reference for if they're looking at each other. EXCEPT when he says he gets into the most terrible trouble five is in frame so you can see the way he glances from peri to five. the IRONY that the most connection in the scene is when turlough is speaking to Peri

One day I will watch it and not find something new to comment on but it's not today

crime: yes!! i’ve scene a theory that even though the guard said the war was over and he wouldn’t be a prisoner if he returned that it’s not true

AUGH yes it’s really interesting how we never see their reactions to the others words. reminds me of this post i tried to find to send you but haven’t (yet) about how when five meets turlough there’s a time slip between them looking at each other over the console and five introducing him to the others and then later we don’t see what happens on the enlightenment ship between the eternal being thrown overboard and five and turlough appearing in the room with the guardians

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26th August 2025

fathomless: I'm excited for turlough

Can he really be that great

spif: Fath doesn't realise that turlough is the war games parallels guy once he gets there he'll be sorry

fathomless: WHAT DID I DO

You guys are out for me

spif: We're not out for you we just know what's going to happen and how you will respond

Fath is probably going to be so confused for most of turloughs run considering that he's background from king's demons onwards BUT THEN PLANET OF FIRE

it sort of reminds me of people saying they wasted Yaz in season 11 BC she kind of is background most of the time but imo it works BC her arc is so much about being repressed and just latching onto the doctor and following her and mimicking her. And then she gains confidence and comes into her own when they get separated in flux. I love Yaz' arc so much and I kind of think her being underutilized makes it bit harder

and I wish they'd done more with turlough but I do think him sort of fading into the background makes planet of fire hit so much harder

crime: especially because he's background and then all of the sudden he's the only one there

[later, in sprimeless room]

crime: time for my daily dose of misery (watching The Scene)

spif: Time for more analysis

Yippee

crime: i accidentally started it too far back and i didn’t realise he thinks the master is dead right before he goes to turlough

the progression of turlough being honest to him lying is crazy, he says he doesn’t want to go which is true, then says he’s learned a lot from the doctor which is technically true but the way he says it and his expression makes it seem more like an attempt at making a joke at the fact that that was his original excuse for staying on the tardis and then he just lies saying that he has to go back (technically the guard said he could stay) and saying it’s his home even though he clearly isn’t happy about it

and the doctor doesn’t even hesitate to tell peri he’s taking her home after turlough leaves he just wants to run immediately

also turlough asking the others to leave very softly since he's already dreading the conversation and then the desperation when he tells them the second time because he doesn't want them there

spif: this always destroys me

and then at the end the reveal that the guard is just there watching

I need to compare all the five companion exits BC they're all so devastating

wait hold on hold on parallels

Nyssa bringing up Traken when she leaves. Tegan quoting her aunt Vanessa. Adric clutching his brothers belt

crime: OH

spif: they're all so shaped by the trauma

crime: and turlough with trion

spif: and of course turlough mentions trion

Yeah

crime: they're all so haunted by their pasts

spif: five in resurrection talking to turlough about why he left Gallifrey and that he needs to mend his ways and then planet of fire revealing that turlough and five are more alike than you'd think and Turlough has the chance to redeem himself

I still feel like I've barely brushed the surface with the Scene

like the dialogue between Five and Turlough is so short but there's so much within it. There's so much to consider about both of their motivations, the stuff they're holding back, the sense of duty they both have but also the sense of failure. Like it's both really obvious what they're feeling but also it's obscured. I'm never gonna get over it

crime: i don’t think there’s any limit to what we can read into The Scene i mean it’s been probably over a week now and we haven’t even started repeating ourselves or talking about things that aren’t important

helps that fave and turlough communicate in like 90% Meaningful Looks

spif: Like I'm gonna start cross referencing scenes soon

crime: YES

i really need to rewatch enlightenment and compare, i got so caught up in the insanity of The Scene that i forgot enlightenment is almost on the same level

.

.

27th August 2025

crime:

i might be going insane

i was going to sleep but first The Scene because i was thinking about it earlier

spif: The Scene

crime: i was thinking about it earlier because we know we don’t see fives face before he says he’ll miss turlough and now that i know he thinks the master died right before i really have to wonder what he thought when he stepped out of the tardis. i mean he went to get turlough so he had to have thought there was at least a chance that turlough would go with him. did he suspect that turlough would want to go home, even after all of his running away from it? or did he step out of the tardis and see the trion guard and figure it out then?

maybe he hopes turlough will stay until he says his exile has been rescinded. there’s such a pause before he says he’s pleased

spif: did he assume the whole time that this was turloughs war games? Did he suspect this was always how it would end?

crime: also! when five turns to peri and says that he has to get her home because her friends will be worried he sounds like he’s trying really hard to be cheerful :fratricide: i wonder if he had actually dropped peri off if he would have continued just trying to repress all of his emotions for longer or if he would’ve still snapped but been on his own for it (arguably a more dangerous outcome)

oh good do you think he suspects as soon as turlough reveals what the triangle drawing means

the way five stares at home in that scene is so

spif: his voice is so measured when he responds to turlough. Like he’s been rehearsing in his head what the correct response is

crime: at least he was able to direct his emotions towards saving peri and not like, becoming a villain lol

spif: betraying no emotionality

crime:

spif: Need to rewatch every scene in planet of fire and analyse

.

.

28th August 2025

spif: Okay tonight's rewatch of the Scene the way turlough looks so tortured as the TARDIS is appearing and the trion guard is offering him the choice

the music underlying the scene is so haunting, and it's the closest to a new who theme I can think of. There's some ninth doctor era music that sounds so much like it. It makes the whole scene feel so much more tragic

after turlough says the line about the doctor getting into trouble and turns away the camera focusses on the doctor and his posture straightens up and the mask falls for just a second and he looks SO CONCERNED for turlough. I cant cope

.

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29th August 2025

spif: Thinking about this again

I dind't watch the Scene last night j was completely exhausted

crime:

that scene is not as insane as the Scene but there is so much going on there as well

spif: I need to rewatch planet of fire and lose my mind at every scene instead of just The Scene

crime: we've gotten so caught up in the Scene that we forgot about all the other scenes

spif: I need to rewarxh planet of fire TODAY I think

Honestly I might just skip through and watch only scenes with them

I want to study body language

crime: WAIT OMG I THOUGHT OF SOMETHING

after tulough says he's going to stay and five kicks him out [in Warriors of the Deep], he looks back where turlough is walking away and smiles, which is the same thing turlough does to five after he leaves in planet of fire

spif: It says a lot tbh that five stays and watches turlough go. And he doesn't run off to hide his face until it's just peri

Character growth

crime:

[spif rewatches planet of fire]

spif: Me when five and Turlough are having a conversation and I have to pause and rewind to analyse

I can't get over five talking very casually as if he's not that invested in turloughs backstory but HIS EYES follow him throughout the scene

turloughs looking away and they keep moving around and standing up and crouching but he is watching so intently

omg and then the moment turlough looks back at him he glances upwards as if he wasn't watching him

crime: YEAH

THAT SCENE

spif: Wait I'm just thinking about how early on five wouldn't let turlough stay with the TARDIS because he couldn't rely on him but in this ep the ending literally he has to rely on turlough getting the TARDIS to him

crime:

spif: the amount of scenes where turlough has his back fully to the doctor while he freaks out about trion and five is just yapping

crime:

spif: wow he realy is choosing in every scene to have his back to the action. Turlough DOES NTO WANT TO FACE ANY OF THIS

They really gave turlough the most tragic backstory holy shit

this episode is so well directed

It's MISOS TRIANGLE time

AAAAH ITS HAPPENING

grabs him immediately

crime: YEAH

INSANE

he also just doesn't let go that whole scene

spif:

Watching again

five starts with hands in his pockets, head elevated, curiously listening to turlough exposit and then when he pulls out the mark he literalyl just grabs him in one fluid movement. Rare to see him so impulsive

crime: fr!

insane

spif: grabs with BOTH HANDS

didn't need to keep holding him BC he stops looking at the mark immediately and is looking at turloughs face

Watching the whole scene again from the start

Five and Turlough crouched together

having a heart to heart while literally everyone watches

crime: wow he really only looks at the triangle for all of one second but then just keeps holding on

spif: turlough looking after malkon but jumping up the moment the doctor tries to leave

five lifts his head when he's questioning turlough about staying with malkon. And then immediately is taken by surprise by the misos triangle

I'm normal

crime: and walking in front of him so they can't leave him behind

spif: the way five is clearly assuming that turlough knows way more than he's saying the entire time

of course he is but not as much as five thinks

crime: the eye contact after he says their friendship would be over

spif: him realising turloughs people's are colonists and bureacrats like the time lords and that immediately making him untrustworthy

and Turlough not wanting to admit that he was in exile as if five will think less of him

the way these two miscommunicate and assume things about each other

five becoming president of Gallifrey turlough as chosen one of sarn -> both turlough and five assuming the other is happy to be associated with their people

crime:

spif: Planet of fire and narrative parallels

PAUSING

turlough talking about calling in the trion ship and he is so defeated

crime: five just grabbing the necklace while turlough is holding it and then HIS FACE when turlough says he knows what lock it opens

spif: and five being like good man clapping him on the shoulder

walking out and then stopping and going 'hold on, you're worried about this?'

he's realising it's his war games

crime: god the way he says "you are in trouble"

spif: he's like. Not even upset. He's kind of pleased. I genuinely think he's happy to know he's not a trion loyalist

crime: definitely

the way turlough says he'll be alright augh

ive rewatched this like 5 times lol

spif: Yeah

wdym the trions have agents on every civilised planet

so scary

crime: fr

time lord parallels

the way the trion guard just appears int eh tardis is so creepy

spif: the war games

crime: also the guard asking turlough if he's still running away, implying the trions knew and could've gotten him back at any time

doctor parallels

oh god it's the Scene

spif: five just completely silent watching the master die

like he doesn't even know what to think

crime: and then he just turns to go and tells peri he's fine

spif:

Its TIME

i somehow managed to find new things about it

spif: oh my god he's literally in the TARDIS staring into space. Blinking as he says he's alright

Holy shit

crime: YEAH ITS

AAAGH

spif: geore is gonna be screaming

not seeing the doctors face hits so much harder given the way we just saw him with the master

crime:

spif: actually letting himself tell turlough he will miss him

crime: this is impossible to just watch once

spif: but he's still putting on a front. Going on about him being a hero

five with his hands in his pockets watching turlough with a stunned look one last time

him saying five gets into the most terrible trouble after five kept saying turlough is in trouble all episode

crime: turlough looking down when he says his exile has been rescinded because he doesn't want to be any more direct than that, then he can't even say the words that he's leaving but five knows so he says he'll miss him so that turlough doesn't have to say he's leaving aaaa

spif: five starting off with a flat affect and then getting more vulnerable and then going back to the front and then having barely withheld irritation by the end with peri

yeah you're so right!!! He doesn't even say he's leaving. He just says he not in exile anymore

it's so in conversation with the scene at the end of the five doctors

crime: but five also doesn't want to be too direct so he says he'll miss him, even when they're being the most direct they've ever been with each other they're still talking around the topic

spif: Help me it's one thing rewatching the Scene every day but rewatching it after a whole two hours of planet of fire is different

I just want to rewatch ever scene again

crime: fr

there's so much build up

spif: he's spent the whole episode questioning and interrogating turlough but in this moment he doesn't ask for any clarification

he knows exactly what turlough is doing for once

so many eps where he asks if turlough is going home. If hes changed his mind. But now he knows that he's in his own war games